was just on a site called harry potter lexicon and one of the threads there was that there may be two time lines:
"Okay, now we're getting into nitpicky stuff. I don't suppose this has any bearing on things, but it bugs ME since I'm trying to create a complete time line and right now there are BIG holes in it. I have narrowed down the dates for James, Lily, Sirius, Snape, and that whole crowd to the 1970's, which works okay, but it surprises me that there are no more specific clues in any of the books. We know a lot more details about other characters, even relatively minor ones. Charlie Weasley, for example, left school seven years before Harry got there, so we can determine what years he was there, when he was born, and so on. But the James and Lily and their contemporaries are trickier to nail down, even though we are learning much about their exploits and adventures. So what? Well, I just get suspicious, that's all. If it seems like something's being left out or information is being withheld, I get curious.
And here's why this question gets to me. There is one niggling little comment in GF that suggests to me that--brace yourself--there just might be TWO time lines going on here. Molly Weasley fondly recalls a man named Ogg being the groundskeeper when she went to Hogwarts. Now she's older than Sirius and Lupin, granted, but not so much older that she would have gone to Hogwarts before Hagrid and Tom Riddle, which was fifty years ago. After Hagrid was expelled, however, he was given the groundskeeper position. How does this Ogg fellow fit into the picture then? Okay, this is very thin logic, since it assumes that the gamekeeper and the groundskeeper have always been one and the same person and it also assumes that Hagrid wasn't an assistant or anything for a while (which we know he was, but we don't know for how long). But perhaps, just perhaps, we're dealing more than one time line. Maybe Molly and Arthur remember one time line, a time line that Voldemort changed somehow (changing time is a major no-no for wizards, we learn in PA, but I don't think that would have stopped him). Maybe Harry's big task is going to be to fix the past (Harry's present) so the future turns out the way it should, not the way it did the first time around (when Voldemort survived and somehow maybe even won). I'm not sure what I just said, but you get the drift...
And probably the strongest evidence of some kind of time twisting going in is the comment on CS that Voldemort is the last remaining ANCESTOR of Slalzar Slytherin. Some editions of the books have this "error" corrected, but other later editions have the word "ancestor" put back in. JKR herself suggested that the word ancestor might be used intentionally in an online chat session. We'll just have to see what happens next..."(not my words!!!!)
right.... so i was reading this and then it occured to me that in book 4 the GOF in the first chapter all three riddles were killed. Mr Riddle, Mrs Riddle and there grown up son TOM. Now how can TOM have been killed if he went on to become LV! Then it says that FRANK saw a pale face dark haired teenage boy around the house. Asuming this is harry then if he kills LV the timeline goes the way MS Weasley says it goes with the man called OGG and if he doesnt and LV lives it goes on the way to LV becoming the DARK LORD! It seemed odd to me that TOM WAS KILLED BUT WENT ON TO BECOME LV!
"nobody wasted there breath pretending to feel very sad about the riddles, for they had been most unpopular. Elderly Mr and Mrs Riddle had been rich, snobbish and rude, and there grown up son TOM had been even more so....plainly three apparently healthy peopple did not all drop dead of natural causes on the same night"
it seems tom was killed however if not by harry but by LV himself as it states that LV killed his own father how could he have killed HIMSELF yet gone on to become the DARK LORD!!!!! can anyone clear this matter up?
if the tom mention was tom snr it would make sense!
which leads to the question what did tom jnr do from the age of 17 to about 46. if we take LV age as being 66 worked out from the fact that he was at hogwarts 50 years ago. and dumbledore says that hes being trying to convince people to say voldemort for 11 years (so ten when harry was born) from when voldee started looking for power. now harry is gonna be 16 so that means he started looking for power when he was 66-26 = 40!!! what was he doing for 23 years!!!!!
Now after hogwarts if he killed his father where did he go? what was he doing? if he wanted to reopen the COS why didnt he become a teacher? he could have easily done it and not be caught but where did he go?
is that a huge gap or what?
Also watches are mentioned a lot so this might have more to do with time than we think!
It also explains why the timelines are so confusing!
Also from the ron is dumbledore thing on here:
Ron=Dumbledore
If the chess game in PS/SS is a metaphor for the series as a whole, and the pieces the characters play a metaphor for their roles in the series, how do we reconcile the fact that Ron Weasley plays, not only the role of the Knight, but also that of the King - the same role played by Albus Dumbledore in the larger war? Pretty simple, really -- Albus Dumbledore is Ron Weasley.
Rowling is rather predictable in how she introduces various magical concepts to us. She never springs anything on the reader. For instance, we are introduced to the concept of Animagi in chapter one of PS/SS in the form of McGonagall who can turn into a cat, only to have this very same concept used once more in PoA (the Marauders) and GoF (Rita Skeeter). We are introduced to the polyjuice potion in CoS with the trio's fruitless attempt to prove that Draco Malfoy is the Heir of Slytherin, only to later have it revealed to be crucial to the plot of GoF with Barty Crouch Jr. posing as Mad Eye Moody. We are introduced to
the properties of the phoenix in CoS, and we see them displayed once again in GoF. In CoS, we are introduced to the house elves and their plight, and these downtrodden magical beings take on even more importance in GoF and OotP. In OotP, we meet a Metamorphmagus... does anyone want to bet against a repeat of this one?
We could go on (parseltongue, prophecies, dreams, magical moving portraits, chocolate frog cards, chess, etc.), but as observant readers already know, JKR doesn't simply use these concepts and toss them aside. She recycles.
In PoA, we are introduced to the concept of time travel with the Time Turner. So far, we have yet to find another example. It would not be like JKR to introduce us to something (especially something so big) and not bring it back into the plot with even greater significance. She has, however, given us a subtle reminder of time travel with the time room in the Department of Mysteries. In a 2000 interview, when asked if Harry would travel in time again, JKR's answer was 'Not telling!' Time travel is coming back... and it will be instrumental to the plot. What does this have to do with Ron, Dumbledore and the chess game? Everything.
Ron, our loyal Knight, will become a time traveler. He will be sent back in time to some point in the 19th century to live out the rest of his days at Albus Dumbledore, our venerable King. The exact mechanics of
his journey in time are unclear, though we do believe it is unavoidable, and that it will in fact be the very move that enables Harry's eventual defeat of Voldemort (checkmate) and that it will also have something to do with the White Queen (Bellatrix). Though you may think us a couple of nutters for making such an outrageous claim, we do indeed have evidence. Lots and lots of evidence.
1. Uncanny Resemblance
We often joke about how unobservant Harry is, and though he hasn't made the connection we have, he does indeed dutifully describe for us both Ron and Dumbledore's appearance. Harry describes both Ron and Dumbledore as tall, thin and possessing a long nose (thoughDumbledore's has been broken a couple of times). These three characteristics are repeated by Harry when he meets either of these two characters for the first time in almost every book.
Dumbledore is described as having long fingers, whileRon is described as having large hands and feet. Unless Ron is a mutant, having large hands would also mean having long fingers. Dumbledore is very, very old with white hair when we first meet him, but when Harry visitsa fifty years younger Dumbledore in Riddle's diary, he is described as having auburn hair. In other words, Dumbledore was once a redhead just like Ron. While we know Dumbledore has sparkling blue eyes, JKR has very curiously neglected to have Harry mention Ron's eye color for five whole books now. We know nearly everyone else's eye color, including Arthur Weasley's (blue), but we don't know that of Harry's best friend.
Dumbledore's one other key characteristic, the scar above his left knee, is mentioned in the first chapter of PS/SS. While Harry hasn't noticed any tell tale scars shaped like the London Underground on Ron, we do indeed know from PoAthatRon has sustained a serious injury to his left leg. Though JKR curiously, and very pointedly, dances around which leg exactly it is that Ron has broken, we have figured out that it is indeed his left leg. When Sirius conjures the manacles and attaches Peter to Ron and Lupin, he attaches Peter to Ron's left side. If you are injured and using only one crutch, you would, of course, use the crutch on the side of your injuredleg. Sirius, of course, shackled Peter to Ron's injured side - his left.
2. How sweet it is...
Though on the surface Ron and Dumbledore seem to have little in common, they both have a great love for sweets. When we first meet Dumbledore, he offers a lemon sherbet to Professor McGonagall. When we first meet Ron, he introduces Harry to the wonderful world of wizarding candy. In PoA, he goes into a blissful trance describing to Harry and Hermione the wondrous confections to be found at Honeydukes.
In CoS we learn that Dumbledore likes to use the names of sweets as his office password. In PoA, Ron suggests to Hermione that they bring Harry back some Cockroach Clusters from Honeydukes. In GoF, when Harry returns to the castle to alert Dumbledore of Crouch Sr.'s strange appearance on the grounds of Hogwarts, he must guess the password to Dumbledore's office. He goes through a whole list of normal sweets,butto Harry's disbelief, the password ends up being, you guessed it, Cockroach Clusters.
But that is not all... In the last chapter of PS/SS, Dumbledore tells Harry that he lost his taste for Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans after eating a vomit flavored bean in his youth. There is one problem with this... Bertie Bott was born in 1935. While Dumbledore is over 150 years old, and for him, 'youth' is a relative term, he couldnot have possibly eaten a Bertie Bott Every Flavor Bean until the 1950's, most likely even later, making him well over a hundred years old. Even in Dumbledore terms, that is hardly his 'youth'. Before anyone makes the brilliant observation that the Bertie Bott card isn't canon, be sure to read the statement from Wizards of the Coast concerning their collaboration with JK Rowling on the making of the cards posted to The Leaky Cauldron.
3. "Dumbledore knows pretty much everything anyway" -- JKR
Dumbledore really does seem to know 'pretty much everything', even for a very wise old man with anarmy of pictographic spies.
In PS/SS, he knows precisely what Ron saw in the Mirror of Erised andexactly why Ron saw what he did. He tells Harry that there are other ways of being invisible, but are we to believe that Dumbledore was really waiting around every night for Harry to show up in front of the Mirror? He either knew exactly when to show up, or he was there the first time as Ron. When Harry asks Dumbledore what he himself sees in the Mirror, Dumbledore tells him he sees himself holding a pair of socks. What is it that Ron's mother is always giving him, but he never appreciates? Socks.
Dumbledore also knows the exact moment to show up and save Harry from Quirrelmort. In fact, Harry leads us to believe that Dumbledore orchestrated the entire thing. Now, we know Dumbledore lets Harry do some things he wouldn't let an ordinary student do, but isn't keeping a Pawn of Voldemort around for an entire school year a very dangerous thing to do? Why yes it is... unless, of course, Dumbledore knew that everything would turn out okay in the end.
In CoS, we learn that Dumbledore never really trusted Tom Riddle, even before the murder of Moaning Myrtle. In the Chamber scene, Riddle tells Harry that Dumbledore never liked him as much as the other teachers. When Fudge comes for Hagrid and Lucius for Dumbledore, Harry and Ron are hiding under the invisibility cloak. Dumbledore knows exactly where they are, and gives Harry a message. Not only that, but does anyone else think it odd that Dumbledore wasn't worried about what might happen to Harry after he leaves? Once again, Dumbledore sets Harry up to complete a very dangerous task. Either Dumbledore is truly mad, or he knows how it all turns out.
In PoA, Dumbledore very readily accepts the innocence of Sirius Black. One might come to the conclusion that he knew Sirius was innocent all along. In fact, many have. The only testimony he hears comes from Sirius himself (a convicted felon). He has already made up his mind to send Harry and Hermione back in time before they get a chance to tell their side of the story. When Harry and Hermione do go back in time, you will notice that every single thing happens in exactly the same way both times. There was never a time through in which Buckbeak was killed or Harry didn't cast his Patronus. JKR is even very careful to put in the door slamming from the second time through in the first time through. Yet... it is Dumbledore himself, as his 'first time' self, who ends up saving Buckbeak - he distracts everyone inside Hagrid's hut so that Harry and Hermione can make off with Buckbeak. Later, when Harry tells Dumbledore about Trelawney's prophecy, Dumbledore is not in the least bit phased. In fact, Harry is surprised he can take it so calmly. In addition, Dumbledore seems to be very adamant about Peter getting away being a 'good thing'. Oh sure, Peter owes him a life debt, but Dumbledore is just a little too convinced that it is all for the best.
GoF is a special case. Though we do find one really huge piece of evidence of Dumbledore's ability to know what he really shouldn't, we think that this was one of the times that Ron/DD may have actually tried to change the course of events. He goes to great lengths to prevent the younger students from entering the Tournament (the age line). He goes to great lengths to find the most trustworthy DADA professor possible (for only one year, and as a special favor) - Mad Eye Moody, someone he knows really, really well. Still, in the end, we believe the end result was exactly the same (except, perhaps, the death of Cedric). So, what are we left with? Crouching Death Eater, Hidden Moody. When Dumbledore discovers that Moody is an imposter, he shows up with Snape and McGonagall in Moody's office. He tells McGonagall to go fetch Padfoot. He tells Snape to go fetch Winky and some Veritaserum. Oh wait... go fetch Winky? How did he know to fetch Winky? Barty Crouch Jr. still looked like Moody. Perhaps Dumbledore really is a super genius, and figured out there had to be a connection to the Crouches. However, Crouch Jr. was thought to be dead and Crouch Sr. was present with Moody the night the names came out of the Goblet. Oh wait, you say, perhaps Dumbledore suspected Crouch only began impersonating Moody AFTER Halloween. Or maybe, just maybe, he was able to figure out that Crouch Jr. wasn't really dead between the maze and Moody's office. Maybe... but he tells Harry 'you never knew the real Mad Eye Moody'. Everything else aside... this is something he could not possibly know with any certainty.
In OotP, Dumbledore knows from the very beginning to avoid Harry's gaze. While three years have passed for us, only one month has passed for Harry and Dumbledore. How does Dumbledore know when to begin avoiding Harry? He avoids his gaze from the very first time they meet in the courtroom (despite telling Harry later that he sensed something behind his eyes - he never looked Harry in the eye, something Harry was exceedingly peeved about). This is BEFORE Dumbledore knows about the dreams. This is BEFORE the attack on Arthur Weasley. Dumbledore absolutely can not know that Voldemort is already in Harry's mind. Later on, when the attack on Arthur does take place, Dumbledore knows the precise questions to ask Harry about the nature of the attack. We now know that Dumbledore is a Legilimens, however... Dumbledore could not have used this on Harry as he could not make eye contact for fear Voldemort would 'spy' on him. Speaking of which... the issue couldn't have been spying as such. After all, Harry is still observing Dumbledore. He still hangs out at Order headquarters. He still knows the identities of most of the members of the Order. While he is left largely in the dark (with disastrous consequences), he still observes much that would be useful for Voldemort and his followers. Dumbledore does, however, give us a hint as to what it is he doesn't want Voldemort to see:
"I was sure that if he realized that our relationship was - or had ever been - closer than that of headmaster and pupil, he would seize his chance to use you as a means to spy on me."(US OotP Ch27 pg 828)
Now, we do know that Dumbledore really loves Harry. He tells him as much in that same scene. However, I find it curious that JKR would emphasize (by placing it between dashes) the phrase 'or had ever been'. It is not as simple as Dumbledore not wanting Voldemort knowing his true feelings for Harry and therefore be able to use them against him. After all, Voldemort now knows that, and his not knowing that ended up putting Harry and even more danger (the possession in the MoM). No, the significance is in the phrase 'or had ever been'. The truth is, as far as Harry is concerned, they really aren't any closer than Headmaster and pupil. Why was that line referring to a past relationship even there? Harry's relationship to Dumbledore has been constant all through the series. Dumbledore orchestrates hoops for Harry to jump through, Harry jumps, they chat about it at the end of the school year. We believe this 'had ever been' refers to Dumbledore's prior relationship to Harry as his best friend Ron. Dumbledore, of course, would not want Voldemort to know of this prior relationship because that would make Ron a target as well, messing up EVERYTHING.
4. Foreshadowing
Ron makes it very clear on several occasions that he hates the color maroon. Could it be because he will eventually be 'marooned' in time?
In OotP, Ron is nearly strangled by some purple wizard robes while cleaning up Grimmauld Place. Who do we know wears purple robes? Dumbledore, of course.
Socks are a running theme throughout the series. They are used as symbols of freedom, redemption and love. Ron, however, doesn't ever really fully appreciate the socks his mother gives him. In PoA, he tosses them aside to gush over Harry's Firebolt. In GoF, he gives his Christmas socks to Dobby. Socks are also seen attached to Molly specifically - she is seen fussing over socks, looking for socks, folding socks, packing socks. And if Molly wasn't mother figure enough, Tonks tells Harry her own mother has this special knack for magically folding socks. In fact, the first time we see Harry, he is in his cupboard, looking for a pair of socks (though he has to knock the spiders off of them, not having a mother to fuss over them for him). Dobby is set free with a sock. Hermione knits socks for the house elves. Dumbledore, the man who clearly has all of the fame, power, respect, possessions and wisdom one could hope for in a lifetime, sees himself holding a pair of wooly socks in the Mirror of Erised. If you read this scene with Dumbledore being Ron in mind, it takes on a whole new and really huge significance Ron indeed becomes greater than all of his brothers, yet as an old man, he is still wistful for those socks his mother gave him and he never fully appreciated.
Ron's vision in the Mirror of Erised is rather curious. He sees himself as Head Boy, Quidditch Captain and holding both the House and Quidditch cups. We know that Ron has this uncanny knack for predicting the future. If, indeed, he is a Seer as many suspect, might he able to see his future in the Mirror? As of OotP, he seems to be on his way to this future - Prefect (it's the first step towards Head Boy!) and he is on the Quidditch team. Currently, he plays Keeper, a very appropriate position for a Knight, guarding a castle. If he does indeed end up becoming Quidditch Captain, he would also get to play out that dual role once more on the Quidditch field - Knight, as Keeper and King, as Captain.
In a few different places in the series, Ron is shown to hero-
worship Dumbledore. Of all of these scenes, the most striking is at the end of PS/SS where Ron is extremely impressed with Dumbledore's orchestrating the rescuing of the Stone.
"D'you think he meant you to do it?" said Ron. "Sending you your father's cloak and everything?"
"Well," Hermione exploded, "If he did - I mean to say - that's terrible - you could have been killed."
"No, it isn't," said Harry thoughtfully. "He's a funny man, Dumbledore. I think he sort of wanted to give me a chance. I think he knows more or less everything that goes on here, you know. I reckon he had a pretty good idea we were going to try, and instead of stopping us, he just taught us enough to help. I don't think it was an accident he let me find out how the mirror worked. It's almost like he thought I had the right to face Voldemort if I could..."
"Yea, Dumbledore's off his rocker, all right," said Ron proudly.
In OotP, Draco composes a lovely song - Weasley is Our King. If that isn't foreshadowing, I don't know what is. One line in particular is given significance by Draco. He is heard singing it loudly during the game by Harry, and Draco later quotes it in italics - born in a bin. While Draco likes to make fun of Ron's poverty, the phrase has a double meaning. 'Bin' is also a prefix meaning 'double' or 'two' - think 'binary'. Was Ron 'born' twice? Leading a double life? Is Draco trying to tell us something important?
i have long thought that dumbledore knows more than he lets on and maybe he has already seen the future but its playing out backwards so he knows that harry will die but has to consider harry against the world. "its our choices...."
Think about it right. DUMBLEDORE IS RON-McGONAGALL is HERMIONE!!!!!! Harry is dead and life pans out a different way because history has been changed.
Oh and remember DUMBLEDORE SAYS to HARRY in POA something about our actions having many consequences unforeseen.
And above dumbledore gives harry the chance to prove himself against voldemort coz he already knows from the previous after before life that harry defeats the DARK LORD!!!!!!!
AND Dumbledore wants socks yeah....freedom for the elves which is what hermione wants.....and ron is most likely to get with hermione.....i dont know just some weird coincidences maybe!
it seems that everyone finds it near impossible to actually work out the timeline. is there one? or two?